#322 | June Q&A: VBAC Induction, Birth Plan Boundaries, Nuchal Hand Presentation, 36-Week Cervical Exams, Episiotomy, Newborn Transition

Why are we not letting her have a fully bulb and having a chance at a vaginal birth? Why is she going straight to C section? It doesn't add up. That's that it never I do think that she might enjoy checking out some other providers who might handle things all differently, or at least not joy. Yeah, suddenly look at me being all diplomatic out of nowhere,

someone like me, someone like you, my second pregnancy, and my midwife had mentioned she doesn't require cervical checks, but they like to do them after 36 weeks, he said, because it tells them a lot of things about baby positioning and helps them make recommendations like, I guess, to see a chiropractor to do certain stretches to help baby engage instead of pelvis. Is there anything to this interesting? Yeah, and ridiculous. Well, we don't have to do it, but it provides us with a lot of information. We can make better recommendations based on a cervical exam. I'm sorry, her cervix. I'm saying go see a chiropractor, I feel her damn belly and decide what she needs.

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

We're doing this all right. We are welcome at it June. Now we're in the June. Welcome to the June. Q, a Wait, what is it? Which ridiculous, because I'm in a sweater because it's abnormally unseasonally seven degrees, 17 degrees below average, cooler than it should be. Look at you into all the numbers this morning, I just happened to look at the weather app today. Oh, I did not gave you that kind of data. Well, that's a nice little tidbit of total useless information. See, we're not supposed to talk about weather. You always talk about the weather. I know. Tell me not to talk about the weather. You've been doing this for five years. All right, so let's okay. What's what is on our agenda today? Well, a lot of questions. We have a lot of questions to answer today, but we need to begin by discussing something that actually came to you. You shared this with me, and I saved it to discuss it today. From can't wait to hear what this is.

What was obviously important enough. You wanted to share it with me. This was from one of your clients, and it reads, Cynthia, what can we do? Question mark. Question mark, my friend in Maine was having an H back. She's 39 weeks and having prodromal labor for two to three days. And her midwife just dropped her.

She said, It's irresponsible to attend someone who's been in early labor for so long, which doesn't make any sense, the hospital will likely turn her away since she isn't dilated, or they will push Pitocin, which we know is dangerous for VBAC. What would you do? I'm just waiting for my blood pressure to come down a tiny bit before I start talking. Take a breath. I cannot be leave if that's the whole story. Maybe it isn't. But if that's the whole story, for her midwife to drop her at this time for that reason. Do you believe this story? Do you think there's more to it? Because I'm incredulous at this story.

I mean, we hear these stories of midwives dropping their clients. I don't get it at any point for any reason, under any circumstance. So yeah, this makes no sense, but I don't understand it anytime. Why is a midwife dropping them, abandoning them, walking away. It's one thing to abandon them versus provide continuous care in some other form, like being their doula. Why can't this midwife function as a doula and transfer her care to somebody else? If that's what needs to happen. But in this case, that's not even there's no reason at this point why I'm not buying it, because it's not like she's saying, let me transition into a doula role, and let's get some other medical person here that I'm more comfortable with. It seems like the midwife is using this nothing of an excuse as an out, which is unconscionable. I just I cannot believe I can you imagine being that woman? You're planning an H back. You're planning a home birth after cesarean. You found a midwife. You did all your research, did all the things that home birthing moms typically do. This is what her midwife did, because she told her she thinks she's an early labor and not for too long for you.

It can go on for days longer, like I'm not buying it. I think the midwife used as an excuse. I think there were selfish motives. I don't believe this was at all in the interest of the mother, because clearly, if she had an interest in the mother, the last thing she would do is abandon her. It's a shocking story. I just wish we knew if this was really the whole thing, so that I would feel a little Right. Or possibly she is saying that the midwife is dropping her, but the midwife is really just transferring her and still available to her. That's a different scenario. Well, they they, they said nothing of the sort. They're saying, well, what could she need to now walk, and it's still even transferring her at this point, from what we know from this story, if she's not an active labor, her Labor's not taking too long, even though, as a VBAC, she's, you know, potentially a little higher risk for if it's a prolonged active labor, but she's not even in active labor, right? No, she's not, like they don't even think she's dilated, right? So she's not an active labor.

So this is what you know. I know this is what women are up against. It's so challenging.

I met with a mom yesterday who really wants to have a VBAC, and she wants to have a VBAC at a birth center, but the birth center won't do VBACs, therefore the birth center won't do VBACs at the birth center, therefore she has to give birth at the hospital. But when they give birth at the hospital and there are VBAC then the whole obstetric team is involved in this. It's one of three different obstetric practices, each with 10 OBS in it. And how's how is this mom supposed to have a VBAC when there are potentially 30 different OBS that might be attending her and she has no idea if any of them actually believe in or support VBAC?

When midwives act this way, they're hurting all of midwifery is the thing like, even for women to hear the story and now to have a little less trust in midwives, to think that this might be normal there, or that midwives can drop you. I mean, where is there a contract she can't do that? Was there no contract like, what? What was the story? I'm just I can't imagine being that woman. This is just another reason why VBAC needs to be so much more supported. This should not be an issue anywhere. A woman should be able to have a vaginal birth after a cesarean in a birth center, in a hospital, at home with full provider support. We've done the research, we've looked at the data. ACOG supports this. Listen to our VBAC episode. If you are in a you know, considering a VBAC or you have questions about this, it's just absurd, the resistance that still exists, even from a litigation standpoint, because providers of all kinds love to use the litigation excuse for poor treatment or mistreatment or unnecessary Cesareans and inductions and things like this, and presumably that was the midwife's concern a whole litigation thing. I would think that if, God forbid, there were an adverse outcome, because this couple had to give birth unassisted at home and they sued her, I would think she better be really nervous, because all they would have to do is say, Did you lead this couple to believe you would be there for their birth. I mean, I My point being I can't even believe the litigation excuse in this case. I truly think if this is the whole story, that she had selfish motives and was looking for an out, because it makes no sense on any level, not even the litigation level. I don't know, crazy terrible, the things women have to put up with, what's a woman in labor got to put up with, on top of everything else, we need such a different system, and it's futile to talk about, right? I mean, we know that, but that's really been six years talking about we needed, we need a different system. I know that's what we're trying to do. Oh, this system is we're trying to change at the cultural, grassroots level, because it's all we can that's, that's how the system changes. This is the starting point. It is. Oh my gosh, if I get an update, I'll be sure to share it. Okay, moving on. Let's go all right. So just before we begin, so everyone knows, in case they don't already, you get double the questions in our extended episodes, which you can get by being a tier one or above member in Patreon, patreon.com/downtobirthshow. But for everyone, whether they are not, either way, let's get into the first question now, hi, Cindy and Trisha. I have a question about boundaries. So I'm expecting my third baby, and I have always shared my birth plans and intentions, like with my family and friends. You know, people ask. I tell them.

And I've always been pretty open about my wishes and desires for National Birth, in large part, thanks to yourself. I do need to mention that I am a bit of the black sheep of my family. Definitely do things against the grain, including out of hospital birth, all the things. So I do want to mention that my first two births were both planned home births, the first resulting in a transfer after several days of prolonged labor, and the second was a cesarean due to a late finding of complete previous so both my previous attempts at home birth obviously didn't happen, which, you know, is okay. Also, I am quite close with my family, and happen to come from a family who has very strong opinions about the medical world and home birthing, and everybody is pretty medical. Unfortunately, everybody tends kind of toward that doom and gloom mentality and definitely doesn't understand my desires for home birth and autonomy in my birth, even though they've been successful in the past. So my intention with the third baby is a home birth, and again, historically, I have shared things like my birth plans with my loved ones. However, the third go around, I don't know. I'm just I'm feeling extremely protective of this birth and our plans for home birth, VBAC, and yes, even after two four digit times at home birth, I am fully all in on another plan home birth. I would just be it just kind of out of character for me to not share anything about our birth when asked, you know, and I know people will. So also, I'm a very spiritual person, and I do have feelings around the energies and frequency that people put out there, things like worry and angst and fear that many of these well intentioned people who love us deeply have because of their own fears and also just our path to attempted home birth. And I know I just I don't want any of that anywhere near this pregnancy. And I just feel really strongly about keeping our intentions to ourselves, and I just don't know how to go about those so any any recommendations or support you guys might have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. Lots of love. That was Emily. We just recorded her birth story, and it's going to come out on the podcast next week, and just to give everyone a fun little teaser. Part of the story involved a raging orgasm, and she let us keep that great story, and she let us keep that part of the story in the episode so everyone can hear how that comes well. And here's what, here's what I did recognize in listening to her was that this is the voice of a woman who is becoming more and more empowered with each of her childbirth experiences, despite each of them not going the way she's wanted, but growing into her motherhood and getting that fierce mother bear protection energy that's very hard to have sometimes as a first time mom, but the more you go through things, the More you go through life, the more experiences you have, the Wiser you get, and the more protective you become. And I love that she doesn't want to share this with her family and she shouldn't feel a need to. Can we just take a minute and appreciate a woman who, first of all was a nurse until she resigned from that career, who planned one home birth and had to end up giving birth in the hospital another home birth and had to give birth in the hospital by C section the second time.

And she's now pregnant again. By the way, her three children are going to be extremely close in age. She's in my postpartum group, so I'm we're quite close, and she's planning a home birth again. Can you I mean, just like, does your heart, not just, I love it feel so attached to this third birth. So I try not to get attached to birth outcomes. It's because I just like to trust. I like to just have a deep level of trust that every baby is coming exactly where and how is optimal, no matter what the circumstances. I really like to hold that vision for every woman, but with Emily, I'm just like, Please let her have this third Please let this go smoothly for her. Okay, so the bigger question is, how to handle a family she's close with but they have probably a pretty typical American deep trust in the medical system. But so Emily, I know you're listening. First of all, let's just have a little bit of empathy for your family. It is normal for them. We're not just talking your first pregnancy anymore. This is your third planned home birth. They love you very much. They are understandably concerned. But the beautiful thing is, you can demonstrate is, look, if I shouldn't be giving birth at home, it will become apparent, as it did in the first two births, and I won't be giving birth at home. The only way I'm giving birth at home is if, as this pregnancy progresses, it looks like I'm a better and better and better and better candidate until I go into labor. So in a sense, this should bring the family a little bit of comfort, because she and her husband and her medical community around.

Her did end up always getting her in the right place when that was necessary? Yeah, there was nothing question. I think it's really simple. I think you simply say, given the fact that we have planned home births twice, and neither time, it worked out, she she loves both of her birth stories. By the way, she has great feelings and feels at peace with both of her birth stories, which is exactly where you want to be. I think you simply say to family this time, we're keeping this all to ourselves. I know you love and care about us, and you need to have trust and confidence in me, and I'm just protecting my space. I'm protecting the expectations. I'm protecting my family, and we're not sharing our birth plans.

Yeah, I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I envisioned it delivered, I guess, a little differently, just because we're different people and we're like, playing this out in our minds with circumstances that she hasn't provided us with. We don't know exactly what that family member is like, how they speak with her, how direct they are, or how subtle or passive aggressive, or whatever the case may be.

So if we're talking about a reasonable family member, and I think we are, I think that it's worth giving them a nod and saying, I completely understand your concern. I completely understand that you are concerned about my wellness and the wellness of this baby. I assure you, no one is more concerned about my life and my baby's life than I am. My son always says this whenever I'm worried about anything with him, or if I say, Okay, well, if I just give him some kind of general parenting safety advice, he always says, Mom, you're forgetting. The one person who cares more about my life than you do is me, and I'm always like, I'm not sure about that, Alex, but I'll give it to you. But if you can sort of say that to your parents as well and then say, Look, this is our decision, and it's very important that you show me how much you trust me, because you don't have any control in our decision either way, and the best thing you can do is say to me, I completely trust you to make the right decision along the way, please give me that. Anytime you have concerns, take it somewhere else, and anytime you're talking to me, just say I totally trust you to make the right decision for yourself. I know it's hard, it's growth for both of us, but that's what I need from you. And then Emily, I would just say, if you have little pregnancy concerns or little things seem off along the way that you're dealing with, don't add to their distress by telling them about every little thing.

And also, I completely agree with her about the spiritual aspect of it, and keeping important things to ourselves until they're done is a good strategy in life. Like you don't need to tell everybody what you're up to when you when you put things like that out there, and then people give you feedback and energetic feedback, and they they question or they criticize or whatever, it changes the energy around you about how you feel, about what you're doing. Yeah, so I am all for keeping things private until you until you're on the other side. So yeah, I've, I've had couples not tell their family that they were birthing in a birthing center or having a home birth until the baby was out. And there are certain situations where that is absolutely the right thing to do, because what you can't do is distress yourself or catch yourself explaining your decisions to the other adults in your life who will always perceive you as their child, which which makes sense you are so good luck with that. Emily, I can't wait to hear.

Hi ladies. I called a couple weeks back about the whole cervix selling shut thing, and then I went to send my bike appointments last time around, and I mentioned that I'd kind of declined cervical text all throughout my first pregnancy. I'm now nearing the 33 week mark with my second pregnancy, and my midwife had mentioned she doesn't require cervical texture or that she doesn't do them or force anyone to do them, but that they like to do them after 36 weeks, he said, because it tells him a lot of things about baby's positioning and helps them make recommendations, like, I guess, to see a chiropractor or to do certain stretches to help baby engage into the pelvis. Is there anything to this? I kind of thought that cervical sex didn't really provide great insight. So just curious what your thoughts are. Thanks. I like that question. It's interesting, yeah, and ridiculous, right? That I It sounds so real. Well, we don't have to do it, but it provides us with a lot of information. Give me a break. We can make better recommendations based on a cervical exam. I'm sorry, teaching her cervix. And saying, Go see a chiropractor, feel her damn belly and decide what she needs. Right? Work on your skill of knowing when a baby is head down for one that's her the midwife's own failure to have her skill honed to know the baby's position, but we will know whether to recommend a chiropractor if anyone has their hands inside.

Your vagina in pregnancy, outside of your bedroom. I know what everyone's thinking. With a professional then I think it might make sense for that person to be a pelvic floor specialist. They can have a gloved hand inside teach you certain ways to strengthen or prepare for birth. There is a whole field around that, but for a midwife just to go in there fishing around, come on. No, there's no good justification for that.

Now, what would be Trisha a good justification for it at 36 weeks? Yeah, I'm saying, generally speaking, there isn't. But would there be any time in pregnancy, other than, though it's just fun, let's see if the cervix is starting to thin and dilate, or, you know, ripen if someone thinks, if you think, well, not even at 36 weeks. I mean, it is preterm labor, but you wouldn't even be really worried about it if it were 36 weeks and you were in labor. It used to be sometimes that we would do vaginal exams if you thought the baby were breech and you didn't have access to an ultrasound.

You know, you're doing the abdominal palpations, and you think, uh huh, this is butt, not head, but I just want to verify I would do a vaginal exam for that reason. Yeah, of course, there's consent if that's what she wanted, but you do need to know that information, yeah, but now they just use ultrasound all the time, yeah, you do need to know that information if there isn't access to ultrasound, because it would change the whole birth plan so that that makes sense, but the chiropractor line is just no That's hilarious.

Go see one anyway, if you want, but you don't need a vaginal exam. No one goes to a chiropractor where the chiropractor says, Did you first have a cervical check before coming to me? No, sorry.

Cervix is misaligned, so my audience sent me for a chiropractic adjustment. Yeah, I'm sure they get tons of midwives sending them there after cervical checks. It's just so they can check their box. Hi, I have a question. I watched a video of a woman who gave birth in a tub, and she was writing this post about how when her baby came out, you know, he wasn't crying, he wasn't screaming, and it was a full minute where he was just laying on her, and she was, you know, kissing him, loving on him, and she was just like, if he had been in the hospital, he would have had so many interventions, because it took him so long to breathe, but because they weren't at a hospital, it was very peaceful. And then she said that because he was attached to his placenta, he was still getting all the oxygen that he needed.

And I just wanted to know if that was true. I mean, I know that that's the purpose of the placenta, and I wanted to know if all the interventions that they do, if the baby isn't breathing or screaming right away, if we could just take that back and say, My baby's still connected. We don't need to do anything. But wait. Thank you. Bye. You know who she sounds like, who she sounds like a woman who called maybe a couple of months ago, it strikes me as the same voice as a woman. Voice does sound familiar, yeah, as a woman who called a few months ago, and it was very endearing, like her voice sounded very endearing to me. And I was trying to remember why there was a woman who called a few months ago and said I was hanging out with a friend who had an epidural. And, you know, just like I know why I'm having a natural birth, and I know why I do this, but I don't know it just seems so easy the way they're doing it. Remember that question the she struck me in the same way. So I wonder if it's the same person. I just had this like a big vibe. So I Yeah, well, there's a reason that we don't do Apgar scores until one minute, right? That's usually the first assessment on the baby is one minute, because there's a transition time after a baby is born, so it's completely normal. And the rush to get a baby to cry, to grimace, to whatever you know they're trying to get him to do with rubbing him down, and they used to smack him over the bottom and hang him upside down.

It's all really unnecessary, in my opinion.

And she's absolutely right, when the baby is still connected to the placenta, the baby's getting oxygenation for as long as that placenta is, you know, still pulsing a whole there's a whole, very complex, complicated process that the whole newborn transition process is very complex. As long as a baby is having good good tone, good color. That's how you know that a baby's doing okay. And again, we don't really do this full assessment, even if they have not taken a breath, and many of them do take 30 seconds, 40 seconds, maybe a minute, they are still getting perfusion via the cord. So reason number 257 not to keep cord, that cord intact. I mean, most places are are at least giving 30 to 60 seconds before they cut the cord. Now, but it needs to be longer, yeah, till it stops pulsating, at least. And Nancy Wehner would say, until the placenta detaches. For that, is it nice? This woman is asking the question.

Uh, more and more in that camp and like, why are we even separating at all? And I believe the reason is so that they can take the baby away, because they want to do the assessment on the baby. If we leave the cord attached, and if we leave the cord intact, then we leave the baby and the placenta together, then the baby cannot be taken from the mom.

Well, that is a wrap. Then on the regular version of today's episode, we are going to move on to the extended version, which you can access via Patreon or Apple subscriptions. And in the extended version, we are going to answer three more questions, one on VBAC and induction, one on nuclehan presentation at birth, and I believe the other one is on shoulder dystocia, shoulder dystocia, something related to shoulder dystocia. So join us over there for a little more.

All right, it's time for quickies. All right, here we go. We got some fresh ones in today, if you had to choose, would you rather be induced or go straight to a C section?

Oh, not even a question about it, induction, absolutely right there with you. Was that the personal question? Because that was really easy. It wasn't, was it never mind? I don't think so. Of course, it wasn't, I haven't looked at these. So we're just going, we're just, we're just running with it. Are spray tan safe for breastfeeding?

Come on, are they ever safe? I don't know that spray tans are super unsafe.

I mean, your skin does abnorm things, so your skin, your lungs. How safe can that be? You definitely don't want to bring them in spray tan. Just don't put it on your boobs. Okay? Sometimes I say boobs, all right, you don't like that word. No. Go ahead. Okay. I don't have to. It's okay.

It's okay. Go ahead.

Yeah, I wouldn't, I would, I would not do a spray tan. There I am pumping with elastic nipples help. What she what she means is that she has elastic nipples, which means very stretchy, stretchy nipples. And it does make pumping more difficult, because no matter what size flange you use, it, it's still kind of just the nipples are very stretchy, so they just kind of get drawn further and further down, and then the pumping is less effective. So the solution is usually a silicone insert, or a silicone flange tends to be a little less grabby of the nipple, or in some cases, I have had moms have to just use their hands instead of Regina phalange. Yes, yes.

So yeah, it's kind of it can be tough. Is there any truth to the third labor being a wild card. I think if you ask most midwives, they said yes, I would say no, but I know how we feel about beliefs, so yeah, I just would say no. Every, every I do think every single birth is a wild card. This whole thing like your first is your hardest, your second is your easiest, and your third is a wild card. I just It doesn't matter that there's a million women who would say that was true for them. I think there's a million women who would say not how it went for me. So there's an argument to say it'll be the easiest. So if you're going to have a belief that's what there, it's always a wild card. I think it comes from the idea that your second is generally, almost always easier than your first. That's not yet. Me, it was similar, though yours were quite similar, not for everyone, but for most people, the first tends to be the hardest, and the second usually is easier. That is true, and the assumption is that the third is going to be even easier, which is not true. So that's why it gets called a wild card. It could be harder, it could be easier. Is castor oil based skincare? Okay, to use during pregnancy, yeah, not gonna put you into labor. Oh, that's what she's thinking. Of course. No, that has to be gastrointestinal, yeah, it has to disrupt stuff. It has to be internal, because it has to, like, disrupt stuff, like spicy food does on the skin is totally fine, healthy, safe, not the spray tan, but the castor oil. I bet if you put on castor oil, no out of the sun, you'll handle on faster than usual. Never mind. Just go out in the sun. Forget the spray tan. Just go out in the sun. You need it anyway. You need lots of vitamin D when you're breastfeeding. So get out there.

Okay, are some women predisposed to having a short umbilical cord, or is it luck of the draw? Oh, good question. Very interesting question. There's a theory out there that the length of the cord is related to the activity level of the baby, and that babies who move a lot, a lot, a lot, tend to.

Have longer cords, and babies who move a little bit less, for whatever reason, tend to have shorter cords. That's a theory. I think there's also totally a genetic component to it, or, you know, something in the development of the placenta.

Probably yes, if it's happened once, probably a little bit more likely to happen again. Very interesting. A baby's cords were all almost identical. When are we getting to hear Trisha 's birth stories on the podcast? I know I've asked you to do them. You're not as great tellers. I you know what I'll tell your birth story. I'm the storyteller. That's you are a great storyteller, much better than me. No, no more than I just tell her on birth story, of course, yeah, I guess, um, you know, you you want there to be, like a strong, powerful lesson in the birth story. And I always kind of feel like my birth stories are just birth stories, how they should be. They should, like a pivotal race, but they, I mean, they're all a little bit different. They are probably a little bit probably a little bit interesting and entertaining, maybe inspiring to hear. So I can tell them, Okay, I'll work on that. Mine were episodes 10 for Alex and 234,

for Vanessa. And you could either do them the way I did. I just told them all by myself, without you present. You could do that when you know, or you can just tell them all in one or you can do tell them to me, and we can either way. The people want to tell them, either way, I'll tell them, yeah. All right. Well, we'll put it on the calendar. Good, okay, all right. What's your favorite season and why?

Lots of personals today. Well, definitely look at me. I'm saying it like it's common sense, springtime. Oh, I thought you're going to say summer, no springtime, because summer there's not springtime is just it's nostalgic, it's exciting. It's like falling in love all over again. It's that first humid day where you hear the birds, you smell the flowers, the grass is being mowed. It's like it's just every single spring. Yeah, every spring. I say it is so worth going through winter to re experience spring every year. So I have to say, springtime. What about you?

I really love all seasons. Yeah, I it's very hard to pick. You would say summer, though, generally speaking, I think no just took summer. But I also really enjoy Fall. Fall is special. I had to pick one. I think I might pick fall, because I just love the hunkering down, yeah, like getting ready to hibernate and get cozy. There's so much cozy feeling that is very fall, and I like cozy a fire burning in the fireplace, but then the winter, I love that too, but it's really intense in the winter because, like, I have to sit by the fire to actually stay warm. You know, we haven't talked about the German language in a while, but, uh, and our long time followers will know that we do that, that I do this, but they have a word gemutelich in German, and it's there's no translation for it in English, with all the words we have in English, the closest translation is cozy, but it's kind of a spirit, a mood and environment and experience. So sometimes they'll describe an evening as gemmutlich, or a restaurant as gemlich. Of course, I hope one of our German listeners will contact us and add to this conversation. And then the is it the Danish they have hoga, they have the same thing, basically, but they found that, oh yeah, yeah, right. They wrote a book. I thought it was hygiene or something. I think it's, yeah, I think that's how it's spelled. And I think the pronunciation, I'm probably pronouncing it wrong. I don't remember spelled, h, y, G, E, E, and I read a book about it. And the interesting thing is, and now I'm getting way off topic, but this is kind of a socio sociology concept, that language shapes culture as well. Like culture not only shapes language, but language shapes culture. And because these words exist so heavily in certain languages, they build a whole culture around it, almost like they're they they have more candles and more friends sitting on fires, and more evenings where they turn all the lights off, and just more intimate experiences that are very highly valued, even to the point where they'll light a lot of candles, but because that isn't healthy to breathe, they'll like open all the windows on a snowy night and light all the candles and sit around with friends, and it's Just a very beautiful thing, and it is very Trisha when I think about it, I can I can see as much as you love the heat, and you can't get enough of the heat, I could see you really relishing in the spirit of that. And I think you were born in the wrong country.

You're speaking the wrong language.

That might be true.

I am German, you know, I do. I know that. See, so it's in your blood. It's in your blood, alright? The final silly question, I don't know why we got so many personals today, but we did, what's your favorite candy? I know.

Yours, really, everybody knows yours. Wait a minute, I don't like candy. Are you calling chocolate candy? Yeah, it's a candy bar. Oh no, you can't call chocolate candy. And candy bars aren't chocolate. A Hershey bar, chocolate category A chocolate is not candy. To me, is confection. Chocolate is chocolate is like food, very necessary. Chocolate is life. Chocolate is a very necessary food. I love dark chocolate. That's my favorite. And candy bar would be very hard for me to choose, because, you know, I don't like candy. I don't even sneak Halloween candy for my kids. That's my very favorite. Chocolate. Is the Rita. The German ones, the Rita, those are the those are Western European. Chocolate is, in my opinion, is the best. All right, you're bringing me home Belgium. Belgium and Germany, I think have the best chocolate.

That's true. I think probably true. When I go to Spain, to Germany to get me one. I gotta check out their chocolate. If it's good, I'll, I'll bring some home for you. Gotta get there and try the chocolate you gotta get when you travel. You have to, like, try their coffees, try their chocolates. Of course, it's very important. That's why you go. You go. Couldn't agree.

Yeah, the food, yes, yeah. Okay, now the treats. What about you? Yeah, you're not gonna like it, I know, but if I can tolerate how much you like chomps, I can tolerate the candy, or you're gonna say chocolate milk. Are you really gonna do this to me again? No good. I agree that that's not a candy okay? I just like the really cheap candy like, oh, like, um, like, Skittles are one of those things. Yeah, I don't like Skittles. Okay, wait, candy corns, candy corn. Love a candy corn. You love a can. No one eats one candy corn.

I love a bag of candy corns. Wow, I did when I was a kid. I and then I feel like absolute shit after you do No, I could never eat that now and enjoy it. I just wouldn't even like the taste anymore. Yeah, now and yeah, the older I get, the less I like them. But that has been a favorite all my life. It's such it's a it's also got a very nice sentimental quality. It's a fall candy. It is. It reminds us of all our childhood Halloweens. It's a nice memory for most of us, it's a sweet, simple little, you know, I hide them terrible hard hide them around non food concoction. Sorry, I mean, it is non-food. It's totally sufferable. It's plastic. It's absolutely basically, but what, what matters Trisha, is that you like it? And that was the question, right? Okay, great. Well, now you know a lot about us today, and I liked that personal question. It was not too much pressure.

Easy one. We like the easy ones guys.

So thank you for the questions, and stay tuned next week for the big, wild, crazy orgasm, birth story, story from Emily, and if you love it, don't forget give it a five star.

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