#319 | Devon's Footling Breech Birth Story: Accepting the Necessary Cesarean

The doctor finally came in about an hour or so later to do the cervical exam. She lays me down and she she goes in there, and she's like, Oh no, that's a foot and so right. And then, then there I was just like, oh my gosh, my like, heart just kind of sank because I knew I was like, this is going to be a C section.

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Well, my name is Devon. I'm a first time mom. I'm fresh postpartum. My baby was born seven weeks ago today. I had a baby girl born via C-section, which was not my original plan. So that's kind of what I wanted to share today. Is kind of just that whole whole process, but I wanted to also kind of give just a little bit of a background. So I'm a functional nutritionist, very much into the health and wellness space. But my background is also in nursing. I've been a nurse for 13 years. Most of that time was in the ER, I actually even spent a little bit of time on an L and D unit. So my experience with hospital births just from that was always a little bit tainted. You know, seeing kind of the worst outcomes as always this really intense. So even prior to getting pregnant, I was always a little bit scared to give birth, just because I've seen kind of the worst outcomes, until I learned this past year that, you know, birth doesn't have to be painful, and that it can be an actually really pleasant experience if you kind of prepare your body the right way. So that kind of really, kind of shifted my perspective, and that's why, when I learned when I was pregnant, I was like, Oh, I really want to kind of see how I can prepare the best I can to have a natural birth, if possible.

I am a veteran, so I was a Navy nurse when I was most active duty. And since I'm a veteran, I have access to the VA maternity program, which is amazing, because they cover the entire cost of your pregnancy, delivery, labor. And so if you're a veteran, definitely check that out. The caveat to that, though, is that they contract with very specific hospitals and doctors, and you're not allowed to have a home birth or a birth at a birth center, so you're a little bit more limited. And so that was the one downside. But you know, we financially were like, We need to take advantage of this. And the good thing, though, is that we're lucky that they do contract with one of the top hospitals in the Fort Worth area. And so I felt comfortable that even though I wouldn't be able to maybe have that birth center experience or home birth experience, that at least we would be well equipped with, like, all the right resources if we needed and when I became pregnant, since I really didn't know much about pregnancy and labor and delivery, I started to do a lot of my own research. I ended up hiring a doula, just because at I was like, if I can't have, you know, a more natural birth with midwife, then at least I want to doula on my side to kind of walk us through that whole experience, and kind of coach us. And so I hired a doula. She introduced me to y'all show, and that's when I really started listening to all your podcasts and reading more childbirth books like the INA may guide to childbirth and some of those other great resources. And I started to feel a lot more confident and in the possibility of having a natural, low intervention birth, even in the hospital setting, you seem way too young to fit all of this life experience into you. I don't understand. So where in this process did you become a functional nutritionist? Because that's the part that really stands out to me. Yes, the limitation with being a veteran, but being being a functional nutritionist really shapes how you perceive everything it does. When did you get that training and when did you? When was that in your life? When did you Yeah, so it was kind of at the crossroads when a lot of my peers were looking and to go to NP school. I was about 26 years old, and I was struggling with a lot of my own gut hormone insomnia issues just from working night shifts. I was a kind of a mess, and I wasn't getting the answers I wanted from conventional medicine. And I'd always been really interested in nutrition, and so I just I felt called to go down like a more holistic path, and I found an actual medicine school. I was in San Diego at the time, and I got admitted into best year University's masters of nutrition program. So I went through that and graduated from that program. And then from there, I got more certifications on the functional side of things, just so I could, you know, utilize those.

Functional Test, and that's really what kind of catapulted me into the functional space. Because once I was able to use a lot of those functional tests for my own healing and see my own results, I felt like, you know, I need to help other women do this too. Because what's really interesting is I actually, I had amenorrhea for about six years after coming up birth control. And when I was 29 my OB, at the time, really wanted me to just stay on birth control, and told me that I would have a really hard time getting pregnant and that I should just stay on birth control and use IVF when I was ready to conceive.

Trisha, you go, wow, yeah, stay on birth control because you're having trouble getting pregnant. Okay? That's a complete contradiction, I know. And then just go to IVF when you decide that, I mean it, it's it, it's just the most backwards advice you could possibly give. It's medicalizing every single step of this process, yeah? Just and giving you no chance, no chance, no making it worse, just making it worse, and just, it's just a band aid. And I knew that that wasn't, I, like, not a band aid. It's a, it's, it's a destruction, yeah, and the birth control was, like, wreaking havoc on my body, like it was just, I was having terrible stomach issues. So I refuse to take that as answer. And so I, I went through the whole healing protocols for my gut and hormones. I got my cycle back within a year of doing that, and became very regular. And, you know, we got pregnant on the first try, which is, you know, absolutely amazing. Um, so I'm, I'm just really blessed that I, you know, have that background now, and I that's my goal, and kind of, my specialty now is helping women with fertility and gut and hormone issues and helping them, you know, do this from a more natural root cause perspective, rather than just, oh, just stay on birth control. Oh, here's IVF or IUI, which, by the way, you know, only work, you know, 50% of the time, if that. So there's no guaranteed results with those procedures too, and so many potential challenges when it comes with to the process, but also with birth, also with pregnancy and the outcomes of baby too. So, so yeah, I'm very, you know, blessed in and that I took, you know, this all on early on, and, you know, didn't follow her advice.

You know, I wonder if I had, you know, would I have had a harder time getting pregnant? Probably. So let's get into your birth. Tell us about what happened. Yes, what happened in labor, what happened in your story? Yes. So, so I'll kind of just like my pregnancy, like was very healthy, like I had no high risk issues, like no gestational diabetes. The only thing that came up was I do have a history of hypothyroidism. So they put me on Cynthia at some point in my third trimester. I didn't really argue that, just because I was, you know, just wanted to, kind of, I knew it was going to be temporary, so I was like, let's just stay on it. And then in the third trimester, I refuse the third trimester ultrasound because I know that that can lead to some unnecessary interventions. But there was something in the back of my mind, like I don't, I'm not 100% confident that baby is head down. You know, the nurse practitioner at one point checked me and she said, Oh, I think they're breached. That was around like, 34 weeks. I started going to a chiropractor. Was doing spinning babies stuff, you know, pretty much every day, not as many, not as often as they said to do it, but, but then the chiropractor around 34 or 36 weeks was like, I definitely feel her head fill, baby head down, so I think you're good. And even the OB was like, when she did her exam, she was like, I I'm pretty sure they're head down, but she didn't even really seem confident. But I kind of took that, you know, as maybe they are head down, and that gave me some, you know, I felt a little bit better about it. I would feel hiccups down below too. So nothing really
worried me that they could potentially still be breach.

And the day before I went into labor, you know, my it was my husband's birthday, and we were like, together all day, and it was just so just so funny, because we hadn't spent the day together and so long. And that night, we went to bed, and I woke up around four o'clock in the morning, got up to pee, and all of a sudden there's just, like, gushes of water, like it was just puddles. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I think My water just broke, and it was two weeks early, so I was just really taken by surprise. I was not expecting my water to break that early, and I knew I hadn't had any contractions at that point, so I knew it was premature rupture of membranes. So I texted my Doula right away, and I was like, What do I do? I just was like, so shocked in that moment, you know, you just are really caught off guard. And so she was like, Well, you know if, if you're feeling okay, and if contractions are haven't started yet, just kind of hang out at home, just relax. So I woke up, my husband told him what was going on. He's like, Wait, we don't have to go to hospital yet. And I'm like, no, like, let's just kind of hang out a little bit, like, I don't want them to start anything. Because I knew once we got there, especially since my.

Water broke that the clock was ticking. And I even called the hospital and I let them know. I was like, hi, like, you know, I think my, my water broke early this morning. And they were like, please come in right away. And I was like, okay, yeah, we'll be there in a little bit. We ended up just kind of not taking that, that advice. And we, you know, we went for a walk that morning. I was doing some curbside walking. We're still doing some spinning baby stuff, but I started to kind of get a little bit worried, because I realized that I wasn't really feeling baby move as much, and that was a little bit concerning, but I didn't know if I was just maybe, like in my head. So around 12, I was like, let's just pack up and let's just get going to the hospital. It was Ash Wednesday, which is, we're both Catholics, so my husband was like, Do we have time to stop at the church to get ashes on the way? Like, yes, you do. She's like, Sure, let's just, let's do it. So we we stop at the at the church on the way to the hospital, and we walk in and my husband and they're about to start mass, so there's like, a ton of people in the church, and my husband goes up to the Usher, and he's like, Oh, my wife's water just broke, but we want to get our ashes. The look on this guy's face was like, what? Like, why are you here? But he like, rushed us up to the altar, and the priest came down, and he gave us our ashes, and everyone's watching us, and there's like, I could feel like fluid leaking down my leg. I was like, we need to go.

But we got our ashes, and he gave us a little blessing and and then we made our way to the hospital. We get there, the nurse, you know, checks us in and everything. She gets us on the monitor, baby's healthy, baby's heart rate looks great. I feel so much more at ease just knowing that. And she's like, Okay, well, we need to do a cervical exam. And I was like, Okay, well, I, you know, you guys tell me, I was like, I don't want to do a lot of cervical exams, you know, I really want to keep it minimal. So can we wait at least until the doctor comes? She's like, okay, yes, we at least need a baseline. So we can wait for the doctor to come in, but they'll need to do it. And then the midwife came in, and she went over our birth plan, and we had, like, I spent so much time on my birth plan, like, you know, writing down everything that we wanted. And they were actually very, you know, okay with everything that I wanted. They were very, like, going along with the plan. The doctor was like, as long as you have a head block and, like, get Vitamin K, like, I'm cool with everything, you know. So the doctor finally came in about an hour or so later to do the cervical exam. She lays me down and she, she goes in there, and she's like, Oh no, that's a foot and so right? And then, then there I was just like, Oh my gosh. My like, heart just kind of sank because I knew I was like, this is going to be a C section. She's like, you know, we don't do breach, breach deliveries at this hospital. We're not equipped for that. So she's like, your only option, like, we need to do a C section for the safety of you and baby. And I was, like, kind of in tears. I was really just, like, emotional. My husband grabbed my hand and he was like, hey. Like, look like we knew this going into this. We knew that, you know, we had to be flexible with this plan a little bit.

So I kind of just had to, like, take some deep breaths and like, you know, control my emotions a little bit. I just have to say, I love, I love that male energy. I just love that he was able to immediately ground you. You were out of options unless you just walked out and said, Well, looking for a home birth midwife on the street right now. He said, What needed he said, what needed to be said and prepared you for what needed to be done. I Yeah, we had that conversation, like, before labor, and like when we were putting together a birth plan and stuff like, you know, we said at the end of the day, like, whatever happens, we need to do what's best for for baby, you know, if so, if the plan shifts, like, and that's why, you know, they're really birth preferences, right? Like, you need to have some flexibility. You need to be able to pivot a little bit. And I'm someone who believes firmly that everything happens for a reason. And so for whatever reason, that day, you know, maybe we weren't meant to have a vaginal birth, you know. Maybe, you know that was God kind of intervening, or guardian angels being like, hey, like, you know you're you're just going to have a C section, and that's going to be best and safest for you and baby, and so that's really what gave me peace of mind the rest of the day, was just kind of trusting and having faith in God's plan at that point, and knowing that I wasn't in a failure and that it wasn't because of me or because of anything that you know we did wrong, and just kind of recognizing that that was just kind of out of out of our control, and with that, not stressing over it too. So I really tried to kind of just let it go the rest of the day.

Thank God maybe we got to the hospital when we did, because maybe if we waited too long, it would have been maybe more of a dire, more like intense or emergent situation. So again, I think everything happens for a reason. I think we got there at a good time, and we were able to kind of just labor in our room the rest of the day. They had a few other emergency sections ahead of us that they had to get in. So I didn't actually go into the or until about six o'clock. So I just kind of labored in my room, and, you know, I had contractions, I like, still was going through all of that.

Weren't super intense, but it was very calm. It was very like it was that was like the, I guess, silver lining of the whole day was that it was just a very calm day, even though it didn't go our way. And I had a really great nurse team and surgical team, and they brought me back. Everyone was just really, really kind and really positive and and we, they performed the C section. And, you know, baby was born in like, 20 minutes. It was really amazing to me how quickly that whole procedure took and, and what's most important is that when baby came out, she was like, she's perfectly healthy. And, you know, I was just in tears, because that was just all that, all that mattered to me at that point, I was like, I don't even care if this is how she got here, you know, I I'll wear this scar the rest of my life, and I'll just, you know, I'm so, so happy that she's here and she's healthy, you know, having my my husband there beside me, and even though we we weren't able to have that natural experience, they still, you know, they let us play music. And you know, they did skin to skin right away. And they had the clear drapes down so I could see, like her right away. So they were still, like, trying to accommodate us, which I have to say, like, made that whole experience so much better than what I thought it was going to be. So at that point, I was just, I was very, like, happy with the outcome, I guess you could say, as much as I was dreading the C section and the whole procedure, I thought, I thought it was gonna be a lot harder recovery wise. I thought was gonna be just a lot more stressful on my body, stressful on baby. And so far, we've had a really, you know, good recovery, no major complications. And so I guess I hope that, that my story can kind of give some other women hope and kind of put their mind at ease, you know, if something like this does happen to them, that you know, it's not the end of the world, that you know, maybe it's just that was their story, and that's how that baby was meant to be born. And so just trying to find like, different perspectives on your birth, I think, is really helpful. And so I hope that kind of helps so much. And I think what's also interesting too is so my Doula said that that night, there was other when there's like five other women who are also 38 weeks pregnant, who had premature, ruptured a membrane, and she thinks it's due to the drop in barometric pressure that night that these, oh, that's a real thing. That's a real thing. But also, a footling breach is going to be much more likely to break your bag of water early and yes, and it's funny, because now so my little foot lean breach we we call her our little soccer player. I think she's going to be like some sort of soccer star when she grows up, because she's always got her leg ash always kicking. What was your experience like in labor, knowing that you were just waiting on a C section and sort of having to endure the discomforts of labor, but knowing how it was going to end? Did you find that to be challenging? Or what was your What was your head space about that? How did that feel?

I wouldn't really say challenging. I think I was just kind of, I was so Always so curious about natural labor, right? Like, I wanted to kind of know what that really felt like. And I think I was maybe just a little bit disappointed that I wouldn't get to experience that full on, you know, passage through the birth canal and everything. But it was kind of, it was kind of cool that I still got to labor a little bit, you know, for the four hours that I was, you know, in the labor and delivery room, my contractions, you know, they were getting progressively stronger and more frequent. And I was like, okay, like, this is getting a little bit more intense but manageable. Like, Wow, I wonder what it would be like if I got, like, to, you know, eight or, like, you know, that transition period of really, wonder what that's like. So, you know, maybe, I guess, my hope for next pregnancy is that I'll be healthy enough to do a VBAC. That's, you know, my goal. And I kind of want to get your guys insight on that, on, you know, if there's anything I can do to prepare my body for next pregnancy to support a successful VBAC, if you have any recommendations on that? Well, Devon, it's your lucky day, because today, we actually are going to be recording an episode on the statistics around VBAC and who's a good candidate and who's not, in our our opinion on VBACs. So you know, one of the important things is a little bit longer interval of time between pregnancies. There are a lot of good reasons to give more time between pregnancies, but especially post post C section, absolutely you should plan a V back, yeah, and it benefits you that you labored all those hours. That was actually very lucky, because your body experienced some labor, and that is a really good marker for planning a VBAC. It's a good thing that you experience that, as opposed to, say, a scheduled C section. And those women still absolutely can and should, in most cases, plan a feedback, but it was good for you that you ended up doing that. You know, I hope my questions aren't too provocative, but this is just kind of how I roll, and if.

Is, tell me, you have every right to, like, you know, draw a boundary and will, will not go into any of this at all. But I can't help but just you're only seven weeks out, and it's known, it's a known phenomenon that all women, no matter how they birth, take a lot of time, a year or even longer, to process all of their birth emotions again, no matter how beautifully easily or difficult their birth went. You're only seven weeks out, and I've had so many clients so much like you. They were really well informed, took really beautiful care of themselves. Maybe took my HypnoBirthing class, you know, educated themselves with books and podcasts and felt confident and then had a necessary C section. And because so many women stay in my life after taking my class, my postpartum group, or whatever it is, it's a pattern. I sometimes see that they are really positive, strong, achieving women who are like, we're good, like, Thank God the baby's here in a healthy way. I know it was necessary. It isn't what I wanted, but thank God we're here and and it's good, like, great. And I usually do say to my the, you know, the clients I'm close with, and I have the rapport where I can, I can say this. I say, just prepare. Just understand that. You will, with certainty, have waves of other emotions come. This doesn't have to be the whole story that okay, it went great, because I don't want you or that woman to be shocked if she wakes up crying in the middle of the night four months out, feeling it's so unfair, like, why did this happen to me? Of all women, or feeling angry, or feeling an injustice occurred somehow, or feeling guilty that you didn't get that third trimester ultrasound, and maybe you could have done something so again, if it's too provocative, you have every right to say so. But I I'm so curious. Do you ever have little windows into uncomfortable emotions that you think lay ahead that are not yet ready to bubble to the surface, that you know may be ahead, and that's a very healthy and good thing when it happens. But do you ever get little glimpses into those feelings? Any of those feelings? Yeah, absolutely, they don't linger too long, I think, because then I kind of tell myself, oh, you know, you know, this was how it was meant to be. And again, kind of bring, bring my faith forward a little bit, but there's always that question in the back of my mind, like, Did I do something during my pregnancy? Like, you know, was it something? Did I have too much caffeine? Was it my thyroid? Was it Did I did I not drink enough water? Was I not high? Was it my flu levels too low? Like, did I not do enough movement through trimester to help make more room for a baby? Should I have gotten that third trimester ultrasound and so And now, of my next pregnancy, I'm like, Should I do that? Like, should I get a third trimester ultrasound? Like, I'm I think I might, just because I'm a little bit jaded. I don't know. Just for a moment, let's assume your baby was footling breech for a good reason, because often they are, and women throughout history never did a moment of spinning babies. So you've done nothing wrong by spinning babies. Okay, but I want to just go back to the emotional response to your experience, because I can tell you're like, you're highly functioning, you're in your cerebral mind, and when you start to have those emotions, you rally yourself. I'm the same type of person. They're different. For every woman, they're totally different emotions. Some women feel resentment, some just feel sorry for themselves, which is completely legitimate, because they feel it's just not fair. That's a totally legitimate way to feel. And you know, for some it's just a host of emotions, and not every woman who has a C section or any birth feels the same emotions. I'm just really curious, which ones do you think are dormant right now, assuming it's an it was a necessary C section.

Yeah, I guess I definitely feel that fairness. I'm like, I felt like I did so much during my pregnancy to really prepare for a natural birth. So there, like I said, there is definitely a big disappointment and a big let down. And I guess maybe, like, looking into the future too, just a little bit more of not worry, maybe, like, anxiety, of like, will this happen again? Or, like, you know, what if? And I think what's also kind of disappointing too is, like, you know, you know, my baby didn't get to pass through the birth canal. Like, how will that, you know, even affect their microbiome and stuff? Like, I guess I'm disappointed too in just the system of, like, you know, why doesn't the hospital practice breach deliveries? You know that? I mean, I wish that there was more care in that aspect. Or why wasn't? Why wouldn't your health insurance pay for a home birth? Why couldn't you have, you know, stepped out and found somebody who maybe would do a breech birth, although they may not have done a footling breech birth, but, or maybe a C section was the perfect way for this baby to be born, which very well could be the case.

Space. There are babies that will not turn with an external, cephalic version. There are babies that, no matter what you do, will be breached. There's nothing wrong with breach. It is a variation of alcohol so that there's there's nothing wrong at all with how your daughter was, and I don't even think there's anything wrong with the fact that you had a C section. It might have been a blessing that you were limited to a hospital because you could have been at a home birth situation. It is the more complicated type of reach it is. It's not like a frank breach baby. It is more complicated. So I doesn't, you know, sometimes women feel robbed of what could have been a better experience. Yeah, I'm not feeling a lot of that. On your behalf. I'm not feeling like, Oh, if I were Devin, I'd feel so robbed, I don't know, but when I try to imagine being in your shoes, I do feel waves of like, it's just, it's ironic.

You were so empowered. It's, it's, yeah, it's still a it's still a beautiful story. It has really beautiful, like they played music for you and your husband said, just the right thing, and you had time to labor. It's a nice story. It's just, I just want every woman to know. Anytime we have a woman on the podcast in the first month or two or three, I always want her and every listener to know this is a journey like it would be fun to have you back in a year, because you will definitely have different insights, definitely, yeah, and we just wonder at this stage, Gee, I wonder what they'll be, because they're in the unconscious. So that's why they since sometimes come up in our dreams or when we're waking up in the morning. But it's kind of beautiful journey of your evolution. You This is part of your life story, and it enriched you. And it's kind of a beautiful process to see how each birth enriches us, even if there are painful aspects to it. Yeah, I think, I mean, I guess what was just ironic. It's just when we got to the hospital like I, I knew I was, you know, could potentially have a C section if, like, labor went too long and things like that, I just never really considered, oh, a footling breach like that just really didn't cross my mind. And so that was just very like, Oh my gosh. Like, this is really out of my control. Like, that is an important point. You know, we have been extremely conditioned to focus on a healthy baby. At the end, everybody does. Ultimately, we know that that is the most important thing, but not the only thing. And and there is a lot that we can control in birth, and then there is a little that we can't. And the the process is coming to learn how to manage the things that we can control, do everything that we can to educate ourselves and position ourselves so that we can control the things that are within our control and then accept the things that we cannot. Yeah, and in every story we can look back and find little things that we can look at that we wish we could have, maybe tweaked or known sooner or done or done differently.

Interestingly, we recently did a birth story processing session with a mother who had a footling breech birth as well and had a cord prolapse and an emergency transfer. And that is a real thing. And you know, the the blessing for you, like Cynthia said, may have been to have gone to the hospital soon and have had this experience, and that, I do think your your faith, you know, plays a big role in this, and that trust is really important. And also, at the same time, you can still have some emotions that are tucked deep down in there that will come up and they will, they will, every piece of it, yeah, is real and valid and true. Yeah. I think something that has just also been helpful is, you know, being healthy during my pregnancy and staying pretty active, I think it would be a lot harder, and I made it been maybe a little bit harder myself, if the recovery was more difficult. I had my six week checkup last week with the doctor, which was kind of disappointing, because it was just it was five minutes long, and, you know, they asked three questions, you know, how's the incision? Do you want birth control? Are you having any depression? And that was it.

And so you do feel kind of like, especially as a first time mom, it's like, you just, like, I just want more of that support. Of, like, you know, how, how is everything going at home? Like, how are you recovering? Are you able to do stuff? Are you getting help? And I think that that's just that fourth trimester is where a lot of that care is lacking for women especially. I mean, I feel like vaginal deliveries, yes, but also C sections. I mean, I'm very lucky. My husband has like, four months of paternity leave, so he's been taking really good care of us. But I can't imagine, like, you know, doing a lot of newborn stage stuff by myself.

So yeah, I do think that depending on how quickly you can recover from a C section, also plays a huge role in that too, when you have that kind of procedure. So Devin, even though you're so so you so recently gave birth, and you're recovering so beautifully and everything's going well.

What do you say to all the women listening, who were also really informed, really took care of themselves and didn't end up with quite the birth that they longed for.

That's not their fault, that's nothing they did wrong that you kind of just have to trust the process. There's so much we just can't control in the birth process, and it can be so unpredictable, even the C section procedure doesn't have to be so scary, even though it might not go your way. Don't stop doing all the things to support your body during pregnancy, and don't stop believing in it, but just be open.

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I do think you just said something really important, not to fear C section. It's something I talk about with my clients, because in my own experience, when I started taking HypnoBirthing classes, I was terrified of a C section. My whole thing was like, I don't want to C section. By the end of taking my HypnoBirthing course, I remember feeling like I trust myself so much now to get through birth and to change course, if need be that I know if I have a C section, it will be necessary, and I'll be grateful, even though disappointed, I'll be grateful, but fearing it, I think is a good point like that's that's not the energy we want to bring into it. We want to feel like I'm going to be okay no matter what. Yes, this is what I'm working toward. Absolutely interesting.