#301 | January Q&A: Cervical Scarring, Shoulder Dystocia, Prenatal Vitamins, Birthing the Placenta in Water, Postpartum Aches & Pains

January 29, 2025

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Welcome to the first Q&A episode of Season 6 with Cynthia & Trisha! We’re kicking things off by discussing some lesser-known causes of cervical scar tissue that could impact labor progress. It’s a good reminder to consider how any procedure or reproductive intervention might affect future births.

In this episode, we answer a new collection of listener questions, including one about a mom-to-be who wants a home birth but is feeling uneasy about having someone else in the house to watch her child during labor. Is a birth center a better option for her? We also talk about postpartum aches and pains—specifically knee, calf, and foot discomfort—and what supplements and activities might help during recovery. Plus, we dive into the rise of shoulder dystocia: why is it happening more often, and what can be done to prevent or address it?

In our extended episode, available to Apple subscribers and on Patreon, we answer more questions, such as: How can you tell if you’re bleeding too much after delivering the placenta in water (with expert advice from Barbara Harper of Waterbirth International)? Do prenatal vitamins actually play a critical role? And when, if ever, does a low fetal heart rate in labor mean you need to cut the cord and separate mom and baby for resuscitation?

We also wrap up with a quick-fire round of Quickies covering everything from laboring on your back and diaper rash to ultrasounds, precipitous labor, and the foods we, personally, could eat every single day.

Tune in for all that and more!

#200 | Physiologic Birth of the Placenta in Water, Optimal Cord Clamping and Preventing Postpartum Hemorrhage with Barbara Harper

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View Episode Transcript

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Well, here we are the January Q and A, as cold as it gets in the northeast, pretty much. We got a little snow today. That was great. Yeah, a little dusting. It's already gone in Westport. Actually, it kind of is here too. It doesn't last long. Well, here we are talking about the weather, the one I know I was just gonna say about the weekend. We said we're not allowed to talk about it. Here we go. Here we go. Why does that happen?

There's nothing wrong with talking about the weather, but we are here to talk about other things. So find something much more interesting to talk about.

You gave me a text earlier and said you found something interesting on, was it on Leap procedures or on cervical scar tissue or what?

Well, we just recently released Kelsey episode, which explained how her labor was impacted by her routine pap smear that turned into a leap procedure. Unbeknownst to her, she had no idea how it would affect her labor, and so she shared an article that a midwife, or maybe her midwife, wrote back in 2019 about cervical scar tissue. The article is titled, cervical scar tissue, a huge problem. No one is talking about. Everybody assumes that the only reason you can have scar tissue on your cervix is from some type of procedure of the cervix, where they are, you know, going in there and cutting like a leap procedure. But this midwife is writing about how she sees many women who have stalled or slowed, stalled or slowed labors, and when she does their history and looks back at their medical history, they have a whole number of other issues that potentially are causing scarring of the cervix.

Nothing natural, right? These are all interventions that women know they've had. Of course, that's the only way. Well,

they are things that women would never think would cause scar tissue. Okay, so let's, let's read them. Okay, okay, many things can cause scarring on the cervix. Here's a list of things that I can find that cause issues with scarring. First and foremost, the one everybody talks about an abnormal pap smear, where a follow up procedure was done on the cervix, like a cobalt a co post, copy or LEAP procedure, long term hormonal birth control use of one year or more. Wait a minute, which like the pill or an IUD. Wait a minute. Not. Okay, so let's not the pill, right? Yes, the pill. How could the pill cause scar tissue on a cervix? It causes changes in the cervix,

but it ends up with scar tissue because there's like repair to tissue that was damaged some somehow. Well, we have to, we have to look into this more. I don't know of any research on that. I do know that the pill causes a lot of changes in the cervical tissue. So there you go. That explains it. That's that's scary. That's really As if we needed another reason not to. I'm commenting based on an episode we did to it was like around springtime. I think it was in 2022 with Abby Epstein, who put out the documentary with Ricky lake, the business of birth control. Yes. So just another reason not to go on the pill or to or to have some pause before going on the pill. Wow, never heard that one since. So many reasons that the pill is something we need to avoid. Other reasons might be miscarriages where a D and C or a D and E procedure was needed, any form of a termination, a history of having an IUD. Well, this one shocked me, previous use of plan B, even once, is Plan B that drug. Drug that women can take the day after having sex if they think they may have conceived. Yes, so one single pill, that pill is so strong, that pill is so strong that it can cause tissue damage after Is it a one dose sort of thing?

I think Plan B is two doses. That's unbelievable. It might be one. Now they may have changed it. I Yeah. I mean, again, this is, there's not research on this. This is her experience, but it's worth consideration. What comes to mind for me when I hear this? If this is correct, if this woman is, and it could be when they put out a drug, let's say like the pill or plan B, the side effects that they have to list would never include something like this, downstream potential effect like developing scar tissue and how this can impact future pregnancies and births. That would never happen. It's kind of like with C sections. When they talk about side effects of a C section, you're not likely to hear probably the biggest one. This is going to really complicate your next pregnancy, because you'll be looking at a VBAC next time if you're planning a vaginal birth, it's one of those things that nobody sees coming, even if they read all the side effects. That's what's scary about it.

Well, I'm definitely going to have a look at the insert for Plan B and see if there's anything in there that says anything about this, because that that's has huge implications for people. Previous vaginal delivery that resulted in a cervical laceration. That makes sense, history of sexual abuse, previous surgical birth with or without labor. Wait, wait, what was that one a previous surgical birth with or without labor? Oh, planned or not planned C section? Well, that's so surprising. What C section information maybe we, maybe we should invite her on the podcast.

Something, we have to something. This is just something we have to think about and look more into. It's just very interesting information. So what she considers standard symptoms of a scar tissue labor include prodromal labor transition, like labor before transition, a labor with high effacement but low dilation. So that, you know, cervix is all thinned out, but the dilation is slow and low, water breaking early in the labor journey, an early urge to push a stall in dilation. So what do you do? First of all, you might want to look at your history and figure out if there's any possibility that you have any of these risk factors for scar tissue. Find a provider who is knowledgeable about scarring on the cervix. We have talked in the past about midwives using massage to help reduce scar tissue. That's also what Kelsey experienced considering recommendations that are known to soften the cervix. This includes anything in the prostaglandin family, like semen, evening primrose oil, barrage oil, to name a few, and Castor Oil tampons, which I had not heard of before, before calcium shared that with us. So I guess we want to focus on the remedies and not worry women too much about the possibility of scar tissue on the cervix. It's just an interesting it's an interesting conversation, and it's things that nobody's talking about, and, you know, might explain some of the difficult labors that women experience, which is why we did the episode two weeks ago with Kelsey Scott, because I think she was the first woman we've ever had on the podcast who had scar tissue as a factor as an obstacle to her vaginal birth. So I'm glad we put that episode out there. Bigger issue than we thought. But how often does this happen? All the time. There's so much about birth that we still don't know. There is so much about birth that we have yet to learn. Even as much as we talk about it and talk to women about it and learn about it ourselves, there's still so much unknown. Lots of reasons why we need to be more knowledgeable about those routine pap smears, I think about just what might come from it. Well, the good news is that the United States Preventative Services Task Force who sets the Pap smear guidelines, has changed them over the years and now requires less pap smears. You used to have to get one almost every year. Yeah, they keep extending the interval because of all these false positives, so hopefully that does start to reduce the incidence of false positives and unnecessary procedures. All right, so are we ready to jump into the questions for the We Are the month? Okay, let's get into our first one here.

Hi, Cynthia and Trisha. I love your show. I just took Cynthia's HypnoBirthing class. This is awesome. So my question is about home birth. One of the main reasons that I'm planning a birth center right now is because I'm just so freaked out at the thought of someone coming to watch my toddler, whether it's my nanny. Or my parents, and they'll be able to hear me giving birth right upstairs. And I don't want my husband distracted by watching our toddler. I want him to fully paying attention to me and supporting me in labor. So what do home birthers do about their little children that need to be supervised when they're giving birth. Thank you. Lucky for her, we have an upcoming episode. It's a few weeks out, we are going to be talking about preparing siblings for birth on the podcast. You and I are both big fans of having siblings at birth. I would definitely not recommend choosing a different birth location. If home birth is what you want. I would definitely not recommend doing a birth center birth because of the sibling issue. I understand the concern around parents in laws, hearing you feeling you know that part of it being uncomfortable, the child will not be uncomfortable. So maybe the solution is to have a doula to take care of the child, somebody who you won't feel uncomfortable around. You know, making burst sounds and whatever it is.

What do you think? I think that's a good idea. I think that I agree with you that children are not remotely scared of birth. This is a learned fear. So when they see their moms in labor, they tend to be very calm and present. I can say that with experience from my son being four, when my daughter was born at home, but I was told that by women like Nancy Wehner, who've seen hundreds of siblings at birth. She just said, animals and children are totally trusting of birth. And I liken it to your child seeing you push heavy furniture across the room, if you push really heavy furniture and you go, Ah, you get the child isn't remotely scared that you made that sound. It's kind of the same thing you could show them videos of animals or of women giving birth. Women probably better, because I think I've seen women be more vocal at birth. And I would also just talk to your child about it and say, Oh, this is what you might hear. And that'll mean the baby is coming, and just talk about it normally. I think the bigger question is the self consciousness around potential in laws that I understand and I agree, and I liked your suggestion of hiring a professional for that. Yeah, I definitely agree her. I definitely agree her husband shouldn't be worried about the child. He's got to support her.

And it's not a good it's it's not a reason to not choose a home birth if that is what you want. I mean, choosing your birth space is so important. Where you give birth matters so much, and wouldn't want you to not give birth at home for that reason. Absolutely agree. All right, see what we've got next.

Hi, Cynthia and Trisha. I just love your podcast, and I have been listening to it my entire time I was pregnant, up until I delivered. And I just love all the information you guys have provided, and you allowed me to have 100% natural birth. But I do have a question for you, ladies regarding postpartum recovery. I have been experiencing some minor knee calf and then some foot and arch pain, and I'm six weeks postpartum. I've started a little bit of upper body strength, and I walk three or four times a week, about two miles, I was very active all the way until I basically delivered 100% natural and medicated birth in a hospital. So what do you all recommend for postpartum recovery? As far as stretching, exercising, supplementation, etc, I know I've been low on calcium, and I have upped my calcium the past few days, and feel a little bit better. I do eat very healthy, and I drink 120 240 ounces of water a day, and I am exclusively breast feeding. When I initially heard the question, my first thought was just in general, like the concept of postnatal depletion and what the body can be lacking in terms of nutrition, vitamins, minerals, sounds like electrolytes are something that she might need. If the foot cramps could be a muscular thing, it could also be like a plant or fasciitis, and rolling the foot on a tennis ball is really helpful for that. I would recommend chiropractic treatments also to just try to get the body rebalanced. Knee that's joint so that could be inflammation. Inflammation is really common postpartum. Progesterone is a hormone that you know keeps inflammation down. And then, of course, we have very high levels of progesterone in pregnancy, and then those levels drop dramatically. So does estrogen, especially if you're breastfeeding, and so sometimes inflammatory processes, processes in the body, can be exacerbated postpartum, she may want to increase her walking to daily. I would recommend 30 minutes a day. I. Walking every day. Electrolytes, definitely, she did say she was deficient in calcium, so she's probably also deficient in magnesium, and most people are, and that would come back to the cramps in the feet. Yes, yes.

So taking a magnesium supplement at least four to 600 milligrams daily, Vitamin D is always a big one postpartum, too. Most moms need vitamin D more vitamin D throughout pregnancy. Definitely need vitamin D postpartum, especially if you're breastfeeding. That's not necessarily related, although low vitamin D can lead to higher inflammation in the body. So yes, I guess it is. What thoughts do you have? The only thought I have is that Katie Bowman, who's a body mechanist and author of like, a dozen really great books, she I can almost hear her saying to this, how often do you sit on the floor? How often are you stretching? How are you moving your body as you go about your life carrying your baby, it's great to stop what you're doing and go exercise, but Katie's big thing is, how much are you incorporating movement into your daily patterns? Because this woman is doing a lot, right? So it could be just something so basic, like when you're sitting and exhausted and breastfeeding, you might sit in a chair for hours and not be aware of that, and that's not going to be great for getting the knees moving again and reducing inflammation. And that's that's it. I mean, I think, other than those suggestions, I don't think I have anything else.

Fish oil is also another very good anti inflammatory. So if she can incorporate more fatty fish into the diet or a fish oil supplementation, that might also be helpful, but, like you said, yeah, she's doing a lot, right? But it's not enough. It's not working. So she needs to look at some other options.

Those aches and pains are so common postpartum. You said, acupuncture. There's so many women in my postpartum group where they have like, back pain and neck and shoulder pain, and it's, I'm quite sure, in most cases, it's the lifestyle, yes, movement or the lack of movement. And so hopefully it's temporary and doesn't become anything chronic, and she can move her way through it. That just gave me the idea that we need to do a Patreon episode on this we should talk on Patreon about postnatal depletion and things you can do to prevent and restore and repair after birth. Oh, that's a great idea. There's going to be a lot to that. Yes, that's a great one. Let's we were just looking for one of our next topics we should There we go. Thank you.

Hi, ladies. I was wondering if you could talk more about shoulder dystocia. I feel like it's pretty common. I had it on my in my unmedicated birth. My friend had it in her unmedicated birth, and my other friend had it in her second unmedicated birth. And I'm just curious. We all had girls. We all went maybe, like a week over our due dates, and our babies are all in that seven pound range. I'm just curious if it's if there's like things that point to you might have it, or if it's just a matter of, like, we're not waiting long enough for the baby to move on their own. So I'm just wondering if there's anything you can do to prevent it, or any positions you can get into during labor to help fix it. Any tips or like advice that you have would be great. Thank you. Love it.

Interestingly. We have a shoulder dystocia birth story coming out next week so, and that was a pretty long shoulder dystocia took a while, and it was a tricky one. The baby had the arm completely behind the back. Anyway, it was a male baby. So the theory about females, I don't think, is going to hold at least, at least not with us. And I wish, I wish we had more information about this woman's birth and her friends births, because we there's, there's a lot of shoulder dystocia talk when it isn't necessarily Shoulder Dystocia. And we would also be asking questions about positions of the baby the moms, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's interesting, because everybody's worried about shoulder dystocia with big babies, and these were not big babies. So she said her baby and her friends babies were all in the seven pound range. And we do know that shoulder dystocia also occurs almost half the time in smaller sized babies. I think she's spot on about the time frame that providers are giving before they call Shoulder Dystocia. It is a midwife's or OBS biggest fear in labor is a baby getting stuck at the shoulders. That and postpartum hemorrhage, those are the two things that are going to, you know, scare a provider the most. So there is a lot of pressure and nervousness around getting the baby out as quickly as possible once the head is born. And if you're not used to a baby taking a longer period of time or having a longer interval between. Actions, then babies are often forced and pushed and pulled out. So you know, they're manipulated and moved before the next contraction is happening, and they're pulled out sort of early. And that actually can cause a shoulder dystocia, because you haven't given the baby time to do its rotation. So I believe the definition, and it has changed over time, but I believe the definition, technically right now, for shoulder dystocia is an interval longer than 60 seconds between the birth of the head and the birth of the shoulders. That's not that long. Sometimes you have two to three minutes at that stage between contractions. That's always what I never understood about the 60 minute threshold. I feel like that's completely normal, because you are waiting for the body to have the next contraction or surge to get the baby out, and those are frequently over 60 seconds. I would have thought a minute or even 90 seconds is normal. Have you ever seen a baby come out? I mean, I know you've seen babies kind of fly out with the fetal ejection refill. I know they I know once in a while a baby can really come like jutting out. But yes, sometimes, sometimes the interval is two seconds, the head is born and the rest of the body is born. And I think that's what you know a provider is most comfortable with. But yes, go ahead, finish your question, and the baby can sort of eject out. But what about the babies who don't come out that way, the head is out for a while, then you wait. I remember when my son's head was out and everyone was just waiting, like, oh, he has the bait or not. He we didn't know. Oh, the baby has dark hair. Look at that. And we were just hanging out waiting. And I thought that was also quite normal. And then you just wait till the body surges again and a shoulder comes out, and then the body, the rest of the body follows, is that's, that's what I don't understand about this. Isn't that normal?

So what's common is for the baby's head to be born and then for the provider to be using traction to try to get the rest of the baby born as quickly as possible. Now the baby should be born on the next contraction. The problem arises, if the baby is not born on the next contraction, then you are worried that, why didn't the baby rotate? Why didn't the baby come out with that contraction? So you know, depending on how long the contractions take, some providers are more patient than others, but most of the time in hospital birth, a woman is very often giving birth on her back. And the standard technique that you're supposed to use to, you know, birth a baby is the head comes out, and then you use gentle traction on the shoulders to help get the shoulders born. And I think a lot of the time it's the it's called Two Step delivery versus one step delivery, where that, you know, the head and the body need to basically come out in the same contraction versus waiting for this. I never understood that no one can control whether it's two step or One Step anyway, right? Well, you can, if you manipulate it, but that's the problem. That's exactly my point, I think. And that's the problem. Like we decide a baby should come out in one step rather than two. So when the head is out, we start bothering the mother and the baby to make it be a certain way, rather than my favorite word, allowing, allowing the body, allowing the baby to still, to just come out in time without getting anxious and scared. I think you made a really important point, that the problem arises when the mother has another contraction and the baby doesn't come out. I think that is that makes the most sense to be the alarm. And it's important to know that this is a bone on bone issue, so this isn't a matter of this being an indication for cutting an episiotomy, right?

The reason providers like to cut an episiotomy is it gives them more space to work with, but it doesn't that's not evidence based. Okay, all right, all right, so that's a wrap for the regular portion of this Q and A podcast episode if you're with us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions, which is simple, it's click of a button, it's under $30 for an entire year of 100% ad free episodes. Imagine that 100% ad free episodes. I love that, because I always skip through ads when I listen to a podcast and extended Q and A's, so that's what's coming next, and we might as well mention that the topics we're covering in the extended version include a question about birthing the placenta in water, in the case of a home water birth, and Lucky us having a direct line to Barbara Harper, Barbara called In with a seven minute explanation. She said on hemorrhage and on birthing the placenta in the water, because the woman's midwife is concerned, if the woman has the placenta in the water, she'll see a lot of blood, and she won't know where it's coming from. So Barbara gives us the complete answer on that one. Personally, I can't wait to hear it. She sent it right before we recorded and then she and I texted back and forth the rest of the time. So. I didn't get to listen to it yet. Prenatal vitamins and whether they're necessary, that's a very important one, and low heart rate in the baby at birth, and whether that is an indication for resuscitation, or if it isn't necessarily an indication, again, you'll get this episode over on Patreon, in any tier that you join, or by subscribing on Apple podcasts, otherwise, it is time to move on to quickies. Got them. Got them good.

Okay, well, we actually the first one we sort of answered already in today's episode. What's the difference between Shoulder Dystocia and the natural pause?

We had quite a discussion about that, if the baby doesn't come out on that next contraction, then that can be one way to define Shoulder Dystocia. There's quite actually a lot of different definitions, and there's a not a lot of consensus on the definition. What does precipitous Why does precipitous labor happen? And is there anything you can do about it? Why is it a problem? Because it's overwhelming. People are worried about getting to the hospital. So precipitous labor is birth less than three hours. That's the technical definition.

So I had one my first time around. That's unusual. No one called it that. Yeah, I know no one called it precipitous, but I had the baby in three hours from beginning to end, like, just just under that amount of time? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's intense, but I don't, I don't know. I don't understand why it's a concern. I personally, I would be more concerned about the ultra long labors, because they're exhausting and they're mentally they're mentally challenging too. Those two land a lot harder.

What you can do about it is you can plan to have your baby at home. That's the best thing true. What do you think about doing zero ultrasounds in pregnancy? What are the pros and cons? That is not a quickie? Well, it's actually we can give a very quick answer to that. Think so too. Yeah, sure, although, generally, I think we are both in agreement. I typically will recommend one ultrasound between 18 and 20 weeks, the anatomy scan, particularly if you're planning a home birth, but otherwise no ultrasounds.

Yeah, I really love when I meet women who are doing no ultrasounds. And there's a part of me that wishes I had done no ultrasounds. I do think that if I could start a pregnancy all over again, I would still do that amount of re scan just because I love that reassurance, but I don't, I can't call it a recommendation. Personally, I think I feel like it makes the most sense not to do ultrasounds and for a home birth, I think you make a very good point, because there could be something very like we had Liz idle man's episode. She knew her child had esophagu atresia, and they there are many women like her, where they know we had a woman on the podcast whose baby had a heart condition. They know that they need to have the baby and then take immediate medical action. So I totally understand your point about home birth. Okay, that's a quickie. I forgot this way. Okay. Next, okay. Is there any reason to push on my back? My OB told me I had to, because of how the baby was coming out. What does that supposed to mean how the baby is coming?

Yeah, no. I mean, there's no reason to push on your back unless you want to right. The only time that you might be strongly recommended to get on your back is in that shoulder dystocia situation where you might need to do the McRoberts maneuver as one of the ways of trying to resolve that, but otherwise up to you, whether you want to be there or not. What's the best remedy for diaper rash?

Coconut oil. Well, the best remedy. My children never had diaper rash, and I didn't realize I was avoiding it so well. I just changed them all the time like they did not spend many moments in diapers that needed to be changed, even wet diapers. I was just on it. So I think, in retrospect, they didn't have diaper rash because they were being changed so often. And I've heard coconut oil is the best, because it's totally safe.

I was the opposite. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I had I prided myself on changing my baby's diapers like three times in 24 Oh my god. I brought my son to a play date once when he was in preschool, and the boy had a little sister, and the mom not only had this, the little sister walking around in just a diaper all day, which was fine, and a lot of people do that, but the it was just it looked like borderline child abuse, like the diaper looked like it was four pounds. It was hanging out low. I was in shock. I just it was like the elephant in the room. I just couldn't believe my eyes. And by the time the play date was over, she. Took her daughter into the next room and changed her and her daughter started crying, and she I heard the mother saying things like, Oh, I know it, I know it hurts, or something like that, but I was just, I was just pulling my hair out like, wow, why did you let her walk around in that okay, so you said you've done that. Why? Tell me why. That doesn't bother you.

Well, I, first of all the diaper waste. I just find environmentally really painful. I hate throwing all those diapers in the garbage. But so I actually used cloth. I switched to cloth, but there were a few times when I did have to use disposable diapers. I mean, cloth diapers are really absorbent, like and my kids didn't have diaper ash. I only had diaper ash with one. You can probably guess who. Haha, and, and it was because we had, we had a case of thrush. So she had a thrush diaper rash, and that was difficult to treat, but the best remedy, I think, is sunlight. Take the damn diaper off. Let the babies, you know, bum, get some sunlight and zinc oxide.

I think they were talking about preventing it, right? You're talking about treating. She said, What's the best remedy? Oh, okay. I was thinking, you're right. I took it that direction, not to get it in the first place. Okay, what's next?

What's next, okay, what are your quick tips for addressing gestational diabetes? I love how people put these into quickies. Okay, I can give one quick tip.

Okay, so can I never eat carbs alone? Always dress your carbs. That means eat them with protein, fat or fiber, or all three. Is the best, yep, which includes sugars. Yeah, my, my thinking was similar, May, yours, might, might, be the same thing, but I was just going to say, eat. When you eat whole foods, you have the fiber, which slows down digestion. So that's kind of your point, especially if you're having carbs or sugars. It's a game changer if you eat carbs on an empty stomach, carbs, sugars, all that, you know, breads, whatever pastas, you're going to spike your blood sugar. That's just how it works. Okay, why can't you drink peppermint tea when breastfeeding? You can. You can drink peppermint tea while breastfeeding, but it is actually a remedy for slowing down milk production. So if you're having abundant milk production, you should drink peppermint tea. If you have a low milk supply, I would definitely not drink peppermint tea. But that doesn't mean that if you drink a tea that has peppermint as an ingredient, you have to worry about it. Mother's Milk tea, which is used to increase your milk supply, has peppermint in it. Okay, okay. Is it normal for your milk supply to drop when you become pregnant? Very commonly, yes. Doesn't seem to happen to everyone, though, but more often than not, yes, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it, your body is going to prioritize growing the baby over producing the milk. Okay, all right, last one, I hope that's one personal one. I hope this is not the personal one. I hope it's not a hard one that makes me have to think for three minutes.

No, no, it wasn't. I already know what your answer is. Oh, what meal would you eat every day?

Oh, yeah, everyone knows mine. So what's my answer? Salad, yeah, salad with second ingredient, it's arugula salad, usually mostly arugula with very thinly sliced red cabbage and one scallion and multiple vegetables chopped up and sprouts and walnuts and one of my wonderful homemade salad dressings, a couple of which I've shared on Instagram with Grilled Salmon if you really make it please.

Will you please keep sharing your salad recipes on Instagram, please? Yeah.

The thing is, I don't measure. My friend was here the other day and I was wedding up one and yeah, I just, I'm not used to measuring food. Yeah, sure. I'd love to, because I've been meaning to organize them all. I could put out a salad. I could put out a salad dressing cookbook, if I were so inclined, because I'm so into delicious salad dressings. So what's yours for now? Share them with our community.

I bet you can guess mine too, kicking wings, chocolate milk. Yes, that was our first big podcast debate, like five years ago, when I said, that's not a food, and you said, Yes, it is a food. So we're, we've, we've gotten nowhere in all these years. I still think it's a food. I still think it's not a food, if it had to be something that most people would call a food, like, not in a separate section of the menu, under beverages, for example, what would be your favorite food? Chicken wings? No, I couldn't eat chicken wings. It's not favorite food. This is a meal you can eat every day. Oh, every day. Oh, I could not eat chicken wings every day. Oh, yeah, I love them, but I couldn't get them every day. What would you I could probably eat every day? Eggs and toast. Okay? Salmon and rice. Maybe chicken curry.

Chicken curry. That's love curry. I love it too, but I'm surprised. You could eat a strong spice every day. All right, that was fun.

I've never tried. So maybe we have to try for we should see how long, how long we should eat our favorite foods every day before we start complaining. Okay, well, I already know chocolate milk, I can do daily. You know, I don't count that. So if we're going to do this thing, it has to be food. Count. How? How is milk a full food for an infant, but not for me?

All right, see you later. Okay, next time. Adios, bye. Thank you for joining us at the Down To Birth Show. You can reach us @downtobirthshow on Instagram or email us at Contact@DownToBirthShow.com. All of Cynthia’s classes and Trisha’s breastfeeding services are offered live online, serving women and couples everywhere. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.

There's always themes. Don't you notice? As we have this podcast over the years, there's themes, you know, there's like the the era that we're talking about, IUGR, and everyone's asking questions about being told their babies are too small. And it just goes on and the this is like an era now of a lot of shoulder dystocia questions. That's because obstetrics is consensus medicine. That's because of the rhetoric that starts to happen. It catches on like wildfire. Yeah, that definitely happened with IUGR. It's happened with big babies, oh, yeah, small babies. It's happened with going overdue over due dates. It's now happening with shoulder dystocia. It's just like, what's the next thing to expedite the birth. Yes, so.

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About Cynthia Overgard

Cynthia is a published writer, advocate, childbirth educator and postpartum support specialist in prenatal/postpartum healthcare and has served thousands of clients since 2007. 

About Trisha Ludwig

Trisha is a Yale-educated Certified Nurse Midwife and International Board Certified Lactation Counselor. She has worked in women's health for more than 15 years.

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